Curse

Minus Sign · Feb 28, 2006, 12:13 PM // 12:13

A friend of mine pointed me to another “Free to Play” online game named Silkroad online, a Korean MMORPG set in ancient China. Its in open beta right now, so anyone can download it to test. While the game leaves much to be desired (if I want that much grind, I’ll buy a millstone and do something productive with my time) there was one thing that I really liked: the player trade system.

Instead of a trade chat window, each player has the ability to make “stalls” and open them, selling old or out-leveled items to other players. Each stall has a customized name, so you can tell people what the level requirements for each item is and fix a price so they can choose to buy or not. If they want the item, all they have to do is click and drag it into their inventory, just like buying from any other merchant.

While I’d rather have a game wide Ebay style purchase system, the Silkroad stalls would probably be better for GW for several reasons:

1. People are already abusing the trade system. If we made a separate district just for trading in each town, there would be constant spillover from traders not selling their goods fast enough. Also, trade spasm make up for most of the in-game instability in towns, imho. Shoving them all into one place would be like packing dynamite onto nitro glycerin. Any LA “trade only” server would crash like a hotrod without a steering wheel…and don’t forget our dial-up users. There’s no way they’d survive zoning in there. In the end, i don't think GW would survive a mini-Ebay and remain profitable, so different solutions need to be looked at. This is one.

2. It would allow people to “walk away” from their PC while they traded their items. This would also help stabilize the prices, preventing some people from flooding the market with cheap items. If they don’t have to be there to sell stuff, its more likely farmers would cut back on price slashes, equalizing the economy in game. In other words, people would become less impatient to sell if they don’t need a chat bot to spam their wares while they minimize GW and watch a movie. In fact, many people in Silkroad do just that, setting their stall and going to school/work so they can come home and spend their free time actually playing.

3. I don’t know how many times I’ve tried to say something in LA only to see “message suppressed due to activity”. Freeing up the in-city chat window should be a priority for GW, so people can ask questions and get answers. Add to that, most of the spamming is bots advertising for people in trade (or spamming the ALL chat). If people suddenly have that same “botted” text promptly displayed over their heads “all the time”, fewer of them will be compelled to use their bots.

Silkroad is a free to play system. Even if GW decides to go a different route, it’s always a good idea to check out the competition. Since Silkroad suffers from the same core issue GW does (i.e. how to make a game that is fun to play but at the same time light enough on server use that we can offer it free online to millions of people and still make a buck) it’s a VERY good idea to at least check them out.

Flame away
“-“ Minus Sign

William Stark · Feb 28, 2006, 12:21 PM // 12:21

/signed
Sounds like one of the best ideas I've seen. Some logistical issues due to number of player stalls that might be set up I'm sure, but there are probably ways around it (hey, I know nothing about dev'- I just kill things).

Perhaps a single stall in certain towns where you deposit your WTS items and the price you want? If it goes, a portion of that money is credited to your storage. If it never sells, tough luck, or you can remove it from the stall for a handling fee. A limit on how many items you could put in there might be sensible though.

Ken Dei · Feb 28, 2006, 01:05 PM // 13:05

"Signet of Approval"

Another market stabalizer in that game is the fact that NPCs actually pay decent for stuff...so no one wants to go to far above NPC price.

pappayaponta · Feb 28, 2006, 01:09 PM // 13:09

This would be cool, if you restrict it a bit. This restrictment(is that a word) could be that you ONLY can set up the stall in a huge indoor arena. You could evole this to that you go and talk to the guy outside this huge arena and he put you to a stall at a spot. If you have this NPC decide where the stalls should be it could be like a fair with "streets" that you could walk on and look on the interisting stuff that is being sold. Just a idea.

BigTru · Feb 28, 2006, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Only if they made a particular district for it, which I don't see how they'd do do since the district would get full fairly quickly. If they didn't make a district for it, all hell would break loose.

Silk Road is laggy as hell and you have a hard time getting in the servers just because of all the peoplewho set up stalls then go afk, not to mention all the server crashes. In fact,just about every game I've played with a stall system and no Auction House to compliment end up being laggy.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Feb 28, 2006, 01:24 PM // 13:24

No.
Do you know why that game "Silk Road Online" lags so much?
Its because of the players who were AFK and leaving their stalls on.

No. At the moment, towns are quite laggish already, we do not need more lag.

lyra_song · Feb 28, 2006, 02:00 PM // 14:00

oh the lag ~_~

we have the "vending" ability in RO also, and its VERY annoying when someone sets up IN FRONT OF YOU and covers up your stall. Can you imagine just an OCEAN of text from all the AFK sellers? x_x

Silvergun Superman · Feb 28, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

I've been playing Silkroad Online for a few weeks now, and I must say I like its selling stalls. Hassle free when trying to sell and make money. The best part is that you can set up a stall and go afk. Guild Wars should definitely have something similar like this. IMO, the current Guild Wars trade system is just LMFAO. In order to trade/sell something in Guild Wars, you have to park your booty somewhere and spam like a senile nutcase. Sometimes people just open a blind trade window to you. That's just ridiculous.

Minus Sign · Mar 02, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Ok. About as many for as against. While I don't need to remind anyone that textbots are making Guild Wars Towns about as laggy as Silkroad will be when they stop cramming everyone into a select few BETA testing districts (real reason why SRO is laggy? They're pushing the servers as hard as they can before release to see just how much strain they can put onto them before they crash

there is a point about stall placement and the ammount of stalls allowed in each district. Some possible solutions to issues discussed thus far:

Whenever a GW district is filled to capacity, it stops admitting new players and shifts them to others. If you try to enter that district, an alert is triggered promting you to choose another district because this one is full. A set limit on the number of stalls per district would remove the lag issue. Attempts to set up your stall in D1 of LA would result in a simular alert like:

"All stall slots in this district are occupied. Please select another."

While this means you may have to go from D1 to D12 to find an open stall some days, it still reduces the time you have to sell and shop. Why? Part 2:

Select an area as proposed above where the stalls can be placed. set it up like a shopping Kieosk with stalls to either side. Players can set up here, in these pre-determined locations, to cut down on "clutter". You are unable to set up stalls in front of NPCs and other players because the system, i.e the shopping kieosk, is designed to prevent that. To prevent people from going afk in a prime district for hours (and hours and hours) on end, place restrictions on the amount of time you are able to rent the stall.

Stalls can even BE rented, a purchase for this particular service (100g or something per 1 hour and a limit on the number of hours you are allowed to rent the stall) to help improve GWs less than liquid economy by adding more disposible goods. In this case, the stall is a good with a finite use. Once used, you can't get it or that time back, but it improves conveinence and ensures that most players will have a good chance to search through the kieosks in each district to find that green you're selling. This would also improve price control, preventing that guy in D1 whose trying to sell Victos blade for 100k +ecto from getting any business if everyone knows, with a little frugle searching of the other districts, they can find one at a reasonable price...and quickly too.

This is far from a magic bullet. I know that. And there are still many holes and ways to both abuse the system and be abused by it (if you come on late in the day, all the D1-7 stalls may be taken, making it harder for you to sell; people might choose to ignore the stalls completely and continue spamming all chat with textbots rather than pay 100g an hour for the computer to do it legal, etc).

Expand on these ideas, please, or add your own; if this doesn't work I'm hoping we can come up with something that will.

Nevin · Mar 02, 2006, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Man SilkRoad was bad, I played it. But with the Auction House system there won't be a need for stalls.

[email protected]_UKRaiNiaN · Mar 02, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

what about this one?!?!?!?!

NPC seller (like weapons/armor NPCs)
u bring all ur weapons/runes (limited to 5 items per char) u want to sell, put the price u want for it (if it been in there for 2 days, price drops to a min that u specified)....depending on the price, that NPC will take a seller fee (less then 10k 5%, 20K 7% and so on)
So the buyer just goes to NPC, check what hes got, and buy it or not.
This way u dont have to spam in the TRADE that u wanna sell sup something or rare gold wand

actionjack · Mar 02, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected]_UKRaiNiaN

what about this one?!?!?!?!

NPC seller (like weapons/armor NPCs)
u bring all ur weapons/runes (limited to 5 items per char) u want to sell, put the price u want for it (if it been in there for 2 days, price drops to a min that u specified)....depending on the price, that NPC will take a seller fee (less then 10k 5%, 20K 7% and so on)
So the buyer just goes to NPC, check what hes got, and buy it or not.
This way u dont have to spam in the TRADE that u wanna sell sup something or rare gold wand

^ I like this more...

The Stalls Selling stand is almost a standard in most Korean MMO. However, I think GW would have issue with them in that they would clutter up the town, adding more lags. And it work in other game because it is largely a persistant world, not like GW's district base town system.

A action system more like WoW or StarWar:G would seem better and lot easier. (of couse, reducing the hardship of finding the stuff you need will also bring the price down, but might also lead to reduce in playing as you pretty much get all that you need) I am sure Anet have thought of all those as an option before, but kept to the trade channel in order to encourage more human interaction in trade (but not expected the spam)

I want to see more of a Merchant Town (like a farmers market) with lots NPC stalls. As said above, you could take your goods to a NPC seller and have him help sell your stuff. Also might include an option of buying/renting Guild Merchant (one you can buy with your guild) that does the same, but reduce in fee cost. Also could put stuff up for Auctioning too (hightest bid), and would help gather some of the spam trader into this place.

R A C · Mar 02, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

I think the trade stalls idea is great, as long as it's less laggy than the curent trade/all chat channel spam.

drowningfish999 · Mar 02, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

No, thats too much of an excuse for people to go AFK, and take up needless space on the servers. The lag is bad enough already, I don't think we need more. Plus with the auction system coming in factions, I'll think trading will be a little bit easirer.

Not A Fifty Five · Dec 27, 2006, 08:18 AM // 08:18

/signed

Stalls evaporate after 5 minutes, problem solved.

Takeo · Dec 27, 2006, 08:34 AM // 08:34

HI.
One of the things that annoys me the most is how the market is done.

1-Ppl have to say what they are selling over and over again.

2-You have to answer ppl questions all the time about the products over and over again.

3-The time you waste to sell items.

4-Ppl spaming all over the trade chat and the local chat aboutwhat they are selling.

5-Having to spam so someone will notice me.

6-Wasting time and not selling anything.

Did anyone here ever played knight online?
The game sucks but the market they have is realy well made in my opinion.
In that game ppl can just open a sale stand put a few items for sale and give them prices. Then the player types a shout that displays automaticly every 1 min or so.

This way players can go have a coffee or go out and leave the pc on selling stuff. The deals are automaticly made, when the buyer pays the asked price by the seller. Back when i played Knight Online i used to leave my pc on at night so i could sell loads of stuff. Payed off nicely too.

Please give me some feedback on this.

@ not a fifty five. Tks m8.

shivanSoule · Dec 27, 2006, 08:53 AM // 08:53

stalls would be nice to have, but it would add more lag to the major towns, and more ppl would go afk with the stalls open.

if there could be a separate trade channel window like the party search one, but instead of only cross districts, making it cross towns/campaign so that all the traders can view buy/sell stuff without zoning to different towns. Then lesser traders would be spamming in town because advertising their wares via trade channel is better. It could be something like the trade channel in Diablo 2.

Angel Netherborn · Dec 27, 2006, 01:36 PM // 13:36

This stall thingy is like almost ubiquitous in so many Korean/Japanese and other Asian mmorpgs. The worse thing about this is that is encourages ppl to go afk, increasing lag and causing screen clutter. Plus, I still think it's rather dumb to require players to leave their computers on and exposing it online when nobody's around to monitor it. And this does not solve the problem of finding buyers/sellers. It still requires you to be in the right place at the right time. Wouldn't taking one more step and making a simple auction listing a so much better solution? (and that also has been brought up alot of times already)

Bankai · Dec 27, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49

I've tried Silkroad and some other korean MMOs (to the one who said they all have stalls:Wow, I never actually noticed, but you're right), and I really hate the stalls. Indeed, lag. It covers up your whole screen. And it takes away the personality.

I'd really prefer that selling NPC which was suggested before.

rong626 · Dec 27, 2006, 03:00 PM // 15:00

i played silkroad the stall thing is messy when ppl set things everywhere becoz u need to type a description of ur shop and it will be over ur characters hats...iimgaine 100+ ppl in kaineng center setting up shops..a totaly mess!And silkroads cities are flat so that setting up shows is easy